IMG Interview: Keith Zabalaoui
Interview by Karen Kaye

Even before reviewing V for Victory – Velikiye Luki 1942, I had the desire to chat with Keith Zabalaoui. He seemed like a very open and candid person who would freely discuss questions relating to V4V without becoming defensive about his work. I was not only curious about Mr. Zabalaoui the programmer of a breakthrough game, but also Keith, the person behind the product. He is one of the three original designers of the V4V series, responsible for all of the non-AI programming, the Macintosh implementation, and design of the user interface. He also worked on the PC version of the game with Rob Brannon. A man with a great deal of time on his hands, he is also the president of ATOMIC GAMES, Inc. In his spare time, he drops in for a few quick notes on the Three-Sixty Forum on CompuServe and entertains interview questions from inquisitive software reviewers. 

Comments in brackets are by the interviewer.

IMG: Tell us a little about your background, especially how and why you chose to develop the first installment of V4V on the Mac?

Zabalaoui: Well, I used to play a lot of Diplomacy, Risk, and D&D in high school. I never played anything more complicated until after college when I fell in with a gang of grognards. They introduced me to Advanced Squad Leader, Atlantic Wall, Korsun Pocket, and a host of other games. It was during a game of  Atlantic Wall that I started writing V for Victory. We were playing it "double blind," with the Americans in one room, the Jerrys in another room, and the referee in still another room. It got to the point where the turns were taking two hours to resolve. So, I starting bringing my Mac Plus over and programming between turns. I got a scrolling hex map working, then added counters, movement, etc. At one point, Ed Rains (the referee), and Larry Merkel (one of the players), and I decided that the three of us could put together an "in house" system for our own use.  Well, we kept working on it and within a year or so had something substantial. We took it to a now-defunct publisher who signed us up, but we eventually moved over to Three-Sixty.

IMG: What exactly is Atomic Games, and how did the relationship with Three-Sixty develop?

Zabalaoui: At first, Atomic Games was just a name we used. Since then, I have formed a REAL company under the name Atomic Games, Incorporated. Our relationship to Three-Sixty is one of developer/publisher. In some ways, it is closer than that. For instance, we are co-developing a product with them and they are taking over some of the V for Victory work.

IMG: I understand that you are no longer directly involved with V4V. Why did this happen, and what are you currently working on?

Zabalaoui: One thing I've discovered is that EVERYONE has at least one "REALLY COOL IDEA FOR A GAME."  What's hard to come by is the people to implement the idea. I love V for Victory, but I want to do other things as well. So, Three-Sixty will be doing the Mac programming and PC conversion of future releases. I am still involved in the project, but I won't be coding. Three-Sixty is also collaborating with us on a Civil War version of V for Victory. The first battle is planned to be First Manassas/Bull Run. I will be involved in that project as well, but again — I won't actually write any code. The project that I WILL be coding is, uh, well a secret.  But I can promise that when we're ready to make it public, I'll tell you all about it.

IMG: Why do some software companies openly announce products as soon as they are starting a project, while other software companies keep their games totally secret until the day of release?

Zabalaoui: I think everyone is sick to death of vaporware. I have learned that it is better to "under-promise and over-deliver." This allows us to get into a project and get a better feel for where it's going and how long it will take. For my part, I think every gamester has at least one great idea for a game, so it's not really the game concept that is being protected by the secrecy, it's my reputation. I don't plan to wait until the day of release to "tell all," but I do want to wait a little while longer.

IMG: How did you come to own the Mac Plus? Have you always been a "Mac type"?

Zabalaoui: Always and forever. I still have my 128K Mac. The Plus was actually an upgrade for me. Development of V for Victory started on that Plus, moved to a IIci, then a IIfx, then a Quadra 900.

IMG: What do you see as an advantage, if any, in developing games for the Mac?

Zabalaoui: There are plenty of advantages. The toolbox is the biggest, but documentation, technical support, and a good idea of what the end users have are all very important, as well. I use Think C, which further enhances the experience. One thing I want to mention is that V4V Mac and V4V PC use the same source code. That means that we develop on the Mac, move the code to the PC and recompile. Poof! The Velikiye Luki translation took us less than a day. Of course, that was after eight months of work on the Utah Beach translation.

IMG: You mentioned that VL was compiled to the PC in less than a day. If it's that easy, why not develop every game on the Mac and then release it on the PC?

Zabalaoui: I do. Many other companies do not because the PC commands the lion's share of the game market. Also, we have had a tough time finding Mac programmers. It seems they are a rare breed. Finally, the word "easy" is misleading. We had a very talented programmer who knew both the Mac and the PC write a library of PC routines that emulated the Mac toolbox.  That was a major undertaking.

IMG: There has been some discussion of 1993 being the Year of Mac Games. Many games are "coming out of the closet," and Mac owners should have a significantly better selection than before. What is causing this reversal of policy on the part of software companies?

Zabalaoui: Hmm. I'm afraid I haven't seen it. Right now, the PC commands about 70% of the game market. Apple is making inroads with its new mass market sales program, but 70% is a BIG number. I just bought a PC because I need to see the games that people are playing. Great games like X-Wing and Dune may never make it to the Mac. Others, like Civilization, make the trip very slowly.

IMG: QuickTime, CD-ROM, PowerPC Macs.... Where is this technology leading Mac game development, and how is Three-Sixty planning to be at the head of the pack?

Zabalaoui: How long do I have to answer? I can't speak for Three-Sixty, except to say that they have made a commitment to be in front. For myself, I think QuickTime is too slow and hungry and CD-ROM drives are too slow and expensive to be used effectively for games. I hold a great deal of hope for the PowerPC, however. Imagine the games you could have if processor speed were not an issue. MacWeek (aka MacLeak) claims the first PowerPC will be 30 times faster than the LCII. Even if it were only 3 times faster, that's quite a difference. We'll have to see what the pricing is like, but I am excited at the prospect and certainly plan to develop for it.

IMG: There has been discussion in the forums about additional titles for V4V. Such things as Kasserine Pass, Operation Sea Lion and some portion of the battle of Stalingrad have been mentioned in passing. Which of these is Atomic interested in developing?

Zabalaoui: Those are all titles we have considered but rejected for now. Our next battle, after Gold, Juno, Sword, will most likely be Anzio, followed by Gazala. Sea Lion and the Bulge are two I'd personally like to see very much. The problem with these is that they are too big for the current incarnation of V for Victory.

IMG: What improvements to the V4V interface or game capabilities would you like to see happen?

Zabalaoui: It would be nearly impossible to improve on such a well-crafted, skillfully – huh? oh, alright. I'd like to see MORE animation, MORE sound and music, MORE interactive help. These are purely interface items. I'd also like to enhance the staff assistant feature and REALLY modify the way combat is represented. And, of course, the AI [artificial intelligence] will NEVER be smart enough.

V for Victory clearly has its roots in traditional board games, but we have been able to replace a lot of the abstractions found in those games with real calculations or more realistic models. Still, there are a lot of vestiges remaining, and I'd like to continue to refine these.

IMG: V4V has won numerous accolades over the past two years, but recently both Three-Sixty and the game itself have come under some fire from customers. How would you answer those who say that the Technical Support line is totally inaccessible, and that Market Garden was so "buggy" that it looked as though it was not play-tested thoroughly before distribution? [Keith consulted with Scott Evans, Project Manager for the V for Victory series, to answer this question.]

Zabalaoui: Please keep in mind that Three-Sixty is a small company. Until recently our product line was limited to only a handful of releases. However as of late, and particularly with the release of the various V4V titles, our product line has exponentiated itself. This of course means that we have increased our visibility on the market and are generating more questions/comments/suggestions with our products than ever before. To be honest, this growth has been so rapid that we have not been able to keep up in some areas of the company. Technical Support is a good example of this. In the recent past we would receive five or six phone calls an hour for three phone lines. Now we field 20 or 30 an hour. We have recognized this problem, and in fact are in the process of installing a $50,000 technical support phone system that will allow for automated troubleshooting, call queues, voice mail, automatic call back, etc.

In regard to the testing of Market Garden, we at QA were extremely dismayed at the number of bugs that the product was released with. Our testing efforts included 40 testers (out and in house) and a QA cycle of no less than two months. Again, we were astounded. Upon researching the reported problems, we shamefacedly admitted (online) that we did indeed "drop the ball" with our testing. At this point we immediately began development of a patch diskette (for both MAC and PC users) which upon completion will be mailed free to all registered users of this product. This patch will also be available on the major online services that support file transfer. I must stress here that we at Three-Sixty are 100% committed to standing behind our products, and that we will always support our customers in this manner.

IMG: What is your favorite computer or board game? Why?

Zabalaoui: My favorite board game has got to be Diplomacy. I'm not sure I could play now, but I used to play it a lot in high school. I still have my old copy of it with the WOODEN blocks. Its more a game of human nature than a war game, and I learned a lot about my "friends."

To pick a computer game is tough because I tend to think of the games I'm playing now. But I think RobotWars from Muse wins first prize. Its really a programmer's game, but hey, I'm a programmer. Other notables would be Infocom adventure games and Bolo.

IMG: What would you like to be doing ten years from now?

Zabalaoui: Teaching my children to program. Since I don't have any yet, I'd better get busy.

IMG: What do you consider your greatest achievement, personally or professionally?

Zabalaoui: Geez!  What a question. I guess getting V for Victory to market was the most monumental thing I've ever been a part of. But, without getting too sappy, the thrill of programming is overcoming difficulties. I'm challenged every time I sit down to program. If that ever changed, I think I'd get out of the business.

One thing that has impressed me is the product registration cards that V4V owners send in. We've gotten them from Japan, Europe, South America, and Australia. Some people blame us for ruining their marriages or social lives. We have a space on the card for a company name and many people make up creative, sometimes lewd, names.  One fellow was angry because the game was "obviously a DOS game" ported to the Mac - NOT! For the most part, the PC owners are more glowing in their praise, but then, Mac owners are used to clean interfaces that make sense.

One thing I would like to do is thank everyone for their support. I have called a number of users at home to make sure their questions were answered or just to find out what they thought of the game.  Most were quite surprised to hear from me. I also want to thank the testers for the work they do. We often have bug reports, during testing, that are 50 pages or more. These are all things that testers have found and reported. Even so, they're going to miss a couple.